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Thread: Why does Navigator never support the top EE fighters.

  1. #1 Why does Navigator never support the top EE fighters. 
    Did Jimmy Give his girl the Big Fat Salami too?
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  2. #2  
    I thought this guy was black when I first read his posts.

    What was hilarious was his answer to the thread title - when he said 'I liked Kotelnik' LOOOOOOOL

    Kotelnik was some feather fisted average bum who had losses to guys like M'baye x2 and Witter. Only won a world title cause he was in the weakest pass the parcel bum division that is 140.

    Thats like someone saying Gavin Rees or Junior Witter is their favourite British fighter ever, or Chris Algieri is their favourite American fighter Ever LOL.
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  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavigatorIsADumbBum View Post
    I thought this guy was black when I first read his posts.
    I think guys just get so deep into their partisan trenches, any point of view that leans slightly toward the intermediate ground becomes cause for suspicion.

    I'm partisan on social issues, but, jokes aside, it doesn't really transfer to my interest in boxing. Anyone who has spent much time in a boxing gym knows that stuff gets left at the door.



    Quote Originally Posted by NavigatorIsADumbBum View Post
    What was hilarious was his answer to the thread title - when he said 'I liked Kotelnik' LOOOOOOOL
    Quote Originally Posted by NavigatorIsADumbBum View Post
    Thats like someone saying Gavin Rees or Junior Witter is their favourite British fighter ever, or Chris Algieri is their favourite American fighter Ever LOL.
    I don't remember the post you're referring to, but I did/do enjoy Kotelnik. I doubt I said he was my favorite EE ever. I may have tossed his name out to illustrate a point or mentioned that he was one of my favorite EE's of his day.



    Quote Originally Posted by NavigatorIsADumbBum View Post
    Kotelnik was some feather fisted average bum
    Now that is an unfair dismissal.

    In boxing, the term 'bum' (much like the term 'pure boxer') is often misappropriated – it wasn't coined to denote a fighter of limited talent or minimal skillset per se, but a fighter lacking in will and desire to win, specifically one who would accept a purse without any real expectation of victory or conviction in his ability to win. There are even talented and accomplished fighters who fall into this category (Lucas Matthysse betrayed a real bummy streak with that Pacquiao performance). Linares has always set foot in the ring with requisite measures of will, desire and self-belief, which is why I'd never dismiss him as a bum. Likewise, Kotelnik was no bum.



    Quote Originally Posted by NavigatorIsADumbBum View Post
    who had losses to guys like M'baye x2 and Witter
    Controversial losses to M'baye and Witter. We're talking about a guy who schooled Devon Alexander 8-4 (at worst) in St. Louis and lost by scores of 116-112. Most of his significant fights were on the road and resulted in dubious decisions (Khan being one exception, wherein he was simply outstyled).

    Just for the record, the second M'baye fight was ruled a draw.



    Quote Originally Posted by NavigatorIsADumbBum View Post
    Only won a world title cause he was in the weakest pass the parcel bum division that is 140.
    And Linares only won vacant belts in matches with faded guys, fringe contenders and low-hanging fruit. Legitimate champions are a scarcity anymore. Paper titles aside, just looking for substance, I'd take a win over Chino and a highway robbery defeat to Alexander over anything in Linares' win column. Kotelnik sure never got rolled over by anybody.

    I never argued that Kotelnik was an A fighter or an elite P4P'er. But, as B fighters go, I'd much rather be him than a guy like Linares. I explained why elsewhere;

    Quote Originally Posted by navigator View Post
    Seeing as you mentioned him in the other thread, someone like Andriy Kotelnik (or, going back much further in time, Billy Graham) is much more the kind of guy I'd sit a kid in front of if I wanted to show him what a fine tradesman looks like in this sport. Athletically mediocre, perhaps, but tremendously sound fundamentally. Not that Kotelnik was an A fighter, or even a B+, but, as a comparison of B fighters goes, I'd much rather have been a Kotelnik than a Linares. Andriy was much more consistent, much more fundamental. Didn't pack much of a punch, but was able to get to grips with a bull like Maidana with savvy and acquired grit. Wasn't fast, but was able to negate the handspeed of Alexander with refined timing and solid basics (albeit in one of the biggest robberies ever seen on HBO). Can you imagine Linares facing the 130/135 equivalent of even a pre-Oxnard Chino? He would've been mangled.


    For what it's worth, not every fighter I support is a 'top fighter'. Carl Johanneson was one of my favorite fighters – he was Euro level at best (actually got wasted at Euro level) and I never considered him a likely worldbeater, but I enjoyed watching him fight and rooting for him. On the other hand, there are plenty of guys I'm not actively a supporter of whom I acknowledge as top fighters. Whether I particularly care for a fighter or not doesn't bear on my assessment of their abilities or overall level.


    For that matter, there aren't many fighters I do support these days outside of Kovalev and Fury, both of whom I'm a longtime admirer of. There are some bright spots, but I find it a pretty uninspiring sport in 2019.


    Speaking of Sergey Kovalev, there's an EE I continued to support after others jumped ship during a rough spell. He was, at one point, on course to become one of the greatest light heavyweights ever, and still has some remaining window of opportunity to make a case for himself in historical terms.


    I'd say that 21st century EE's have tended to get more kudos from me than 21st century Cubans. If any fighting demographic has taken a critical battering from my keyboard, it's probably Castro's castaways.




    Anyway, cheers for the banter.
    Last edited by navigator; 08-15-2019 at 10:15 PM.
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